23/1/2003
Ergüçlü:
Mr. Alvoro De Soto, thank you very much for accepting and granting us with this interview within your very very busy program. Mr. De Soto after a long delay, the talks started again, two leaders are coming together again with you and they started talking. How do you see the progress until now?
De Soto:
Well, we have only just begun so it is difficult to measure the progress. The parties have just begun to confront their positions on the core issues. We are going to have a meeting this afternoon and as you know a schedule has been agreed on comprising two and half-hours meeting at three times a week. I hope would be enough but that would be too early to say.
Ergüçlü:
Looking at what is going in the last two three meetings, are the talked centred on the Annan plan? Are the two leaders thinking amendments to the plan or they are bringing other proposals?
De Soto:
They are centered on Annan plan as you called it, because they have both agreed to negotiate on the basis of Secretary Generals proposal which means there is a general acceptance on their part of the framework that is provided there. And of course it means they have to respect broadly the overall balance that it contains if an agreement has to be achieved.
Ergüçlü:
So if an amendment has to be made, it has to preserve the balance which is in the plan?
De Soto:
I dont want to rule out that an amendment presented by one side should be accepted by the other simply on its merits, but by and large any departure or any substantial distance taken from the framework provided in the plan means that the other side is very likely to ask for some compensation somewhere else. Lets say, callers from the dynamics of the negotiation rather than any arbitrary rule which Secretary General has laid down, which of course has not.
Ergüçlü:
Looking at the point of straight by the two leaders until now and the views presented at the negotiation table, is it possible to make these amendment in the Annan plan?
De Soto:
It is just possible. But the time frame is very limited. And I am afraid a lot of time has been lost and time has to be recovered. And It would required lot of self-discipline of the parties of two sides. And It would require a great willingness to compromise. Its is important that the two sides and as well as people on each side should accept that its not possible to reach a settlement that fully satisfactory to the position of one or the other side. The areas in which the positions are not reconcilable, therefore must be element of compromise. You have to compromise on some areas and in other areas, you are able to get improvements. There are certain areas where for instance, it is not possible for one side to obtain a satisfaction without the other side having to give some thing in exchange and this is clear for instance in the areas such as territory and property . In other areas, I think, that we have achieved a balance that is actually satisfactory to both sides. Certainly, that is the case in the governance, as we see it provides a system that is operable and functional and that can actually provide for results and decisions being taken. But in a way that does not to any violence to the interest of either side. The position of neither side can be overwhelming upon the other side. In other areas, such as security areas for instance, that is provided, we believe, a balanced formula that has to be agreed upon primarily by the guarantors powers that ensures the security of all concerned and preserves fully the system that established in 1960. So, there has to be a willingness on both sides to accept, they cannot possibly win on everything.
Ergüçlü:
Looking at the progress and the views presented that anticipate
whats gonna come in the next couple of a week, are you preparing to bring about
a second revision of plan to include the views of both side?
De Soto:
Well, we will have to see, I do not want to rule out anything, but obviously the best thing at this stage would be for any revisions of plan to emerge from agreements by the two sides, rather than something proposed by the Secretary General. This has always been our wish. But the purpose of the plan put forward by the Secretary General was to stimulate negotiation and we listened very careful to what they had to say, both leaders and others on both sides. And as a result of that, came out with revision which provided improvements for both side. Now, if the golden mean, the goal has not been achieved, we have at least hope that we have narrowed down the issues to point where the issues can be easily identified and tackled by both sides.
Ergüçlü:
How do you view the gap between two sides at the moment?
De Soto:
It seems less than it was a few months ago. There is however, there is a tendency which is difficult to resist to suspect that the other side is some how getting a better view and therefore lapse back into positions that were taken earlier and that are not viable in the negotiation. We hope that both side will resist that temptations. And that the final results have got to be balanced.
Ergüçlü:
Lately, there has been talking in the international community about the funding of the implementation of based on the UN plan, namely the American Representative Ambassador Weston said that the US is concerned and working on it. And the EU is also working on that as well? What can you tell about this? Because this is one of the vital issue, if a settlement is reached, there will be dislocated people, there will be movements and all these need financing? What can u tell us about this?
De Soto:
We are aware of those concerns and we have heard very clearly particularly form Turkish side that there is concern about this. We have discussed this with Greek Cypriot side and we are also taking it up with other international players including primarily the EU. EU has expressed a strong desire for a reunited Cyprus to exceed rather than divided Cyprus and that I think they will understand and do something about the need for to pay the price that is attached to peace .Of course, this is not mean the money to finance the implementation of the plan will come exclusively from abroad, Cypriots themselves have certain responsibility . The motherlands will also play also a role in this. But we are extend our abilities raising this question with the primarily with the EU and other international organisation that might be in the position to help.
Ergüçlü:
In the last couple of months, there have been major democratic movements within the Turkish Community. Many people, tens of thousands of people are gathering and demonstrating in favor of the UN plan and for the solution and the membership of the EU. I suppose you are following our news and developments.. How would you comment on that?
De Soto:
Of course, I am. Its impossible to have been in Cyprus at the time these demonstrations took place and not to be aware of them . This is democracy in its fullest expression. I dont think, I should comment on that, Secretary General had already something to say on. What is important to retain here is that in the Secretary Generals plan it is provided and this is based on the understanding that had been placed on many many years that the plan is based on the idea that its is the people themselves, Cypriots, Greek and Turkish Cypriots who are the ones ultimately going to decide on whether this settlement is come into being or not. What is foreseen is that, on the 30 of March there should be two separate referenda, on in the north one in the south in which people pronounce on the plan, say yes we want or no we do not want it. And by that exclusively democratic act ,they will, the people themselves, bring into being this new state of affairs that will prevail in Cyprus. It will be they directly in an act of, a in a sense of constituted nature will bring about this new dispensation on Cyprus; with common state, the component state, the constitutions of the overall state, the constitution of the component state, respectively the laws that will be governing Cyprus from the very moment that the new state of the affairs comes to be which in the following day, if it is approved by all sides. So ultimately, what we hope is that the leaders who are negotiating this settlement will allow and hopefully also encourage this referendums to take place, so that the people who had the right to decide their future are the ones who will take the decisions. Which is one of the reasons why its important to complete these negotiation efforts by the 28 of February. Otherwise it will be difficult to find enough time so that people can take an informed and educated decision.
Ergüçlü:
Mr. De Soto you have been holding talks in motherland in Ankara and Athens. What is the message you get from the motherlands?
De Soto:
I am very please to say in both Turkey and Greece I have received encouragement for the goal of completing a settlement in February, so that is what as much as said it about that now. There are of course certain things which mother lands have to help out, in for instance in security provisions in the plan proposed by the Secretary General. It is something involves with the stationing of military personal by Greece in the South, Turkey in the north. They should agree in a manner of satisfactory to the Cypriots of course, on the numbers of the troops will be stationed, the equipment they may carry, where they will be placed, will carry, what activities they will carry out and etc...This is a responsibility for them which actually they would discharge of time.. but the important thing is that they both supports completing a settlement in the month of February.
Ergüçlü:
Is there any discussion going on right now between Turkey and Greece on reaching on an agreement this security issues?
De Soto:
I am not aware of any just now.
Ergüçlü:
Are you having any discussions?
De Soto:
Well, this is an issue of this is an issue comes out whenever I met with Greek and Turkish officials.
Ergüçlü:
Do you have any plan to visit Ankara?
De Soto:
No precise plans at this moment... But sometimes I have short visits ....
Ergüçlü:
Does the Secretary General Kofi Annan have any plans to visit Cyprus?
De Soto:
He does not have any plan at this moment.
Ergüçlü:
But I suppose if an agreement was reached, he will be happy to be here...
De Soto:
I am sure he will be delighted...
Ergüçlü:
Do you think it is possible to reach an agreement within the time frame provided in the plan, that is by the end of the February?
De Soto:
The short answer is yes. But its going to be very difficult and require hard work and lots of willingness to compromise...
Ergüçlü:
What do you think happens if there is no agreement by the end of the February?
De Soto:
Lets talk about it at the end of February. I have to maintain my faith in the possibility in reaching a settlement... and stars are aligned in a particular way now and I am not sure whether that alignment will still be there after this opportunity passes and I think its in the interest of Cypriots, both Greek and Turkish Cypriots to see this opportunity.
Ergüçlü:
My next questions was what are your plans for a non-solution scenario and I was not going to ask that question?
De Soto:
All you will hear is that I do not have one.
Ergüçlü:
Mr. De Soto, thank you very much. It was very kind of you to spend some time with us in this busy schedule .
De Soto:
My very pleasure Mr. Süleyman Bey.